A Champion's Journey with Jim Stagnitta

Discover the inspiring journey to coaching success, filled with resilience, empathy, and authenticity, as renowned lacrosse coach, Jim Stagnitta, shares his experiences in this revealing interview. Over his illustrious 30-plus-year career, Stagnitta has risen from a college coach to the prestigious role of two-time Premier Lacrosse League Championship Coach of the Whipsnakes.

Through our conversation, we gain insights into the depth of Stagnitta's coaching approach and leadership style. From his unexpected entry into lacrosse to the pivotal moments when he had to refocus and grow, Stagnitta's journey is both enlightening and relatable.

We also explore his ongoing work with Prodromos Development Group, understanding how his career and experiences have shaped his leadership philosophy. Stagnitta emphasizes the importance of understanding and engaging with those he leads to foster a thriving environment and success. His perspective on discipline over obedience, which he learned as a young coach, sheds light on creating a culture where individuals feel empowered to make decisions and offer input.

As our conversation unfolds, Stagnitta shares valuable lessons on navigating change and seizing opportunities that life presents unexpectedly. His resilience and positive outlook inspire hope and determination, leaving listeners motivated and enlightened.

This impactful discussion goes beyond lacrosse, offering leadership lessons and inspiration for anyone seeking personal and professional growth. Tune in to gain invaluable wisdom from Coach Stagnitta's exceptional journey.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Well, welcome back to the One Big Thing. I am your host, steve Campbell. This is going to be another exciting conversation today, but first of all I want to thank all of you that tuned into last episode with Bradley Rosa Peloton. What a great conversation, as he talked about being dealt a hand of having a stroke in the peak of his life and his health and some of his recovery, and the feedback from all of you that listened to the show was absolutely phenomenal. So I want you to know, as the host of the One Big Thing, how much it means to you when you respond to me and let you know how much these episodes touched you and your life and where you're at.

Speaker 1: 0:31

And you know I'm excited about this conversation today because this is a little bit of a throwback for me in my life. You know there's been people in my journey that have influenced me in incredible ways. I don't know that I've really gotten into a lot of my story outside of the first episode with my wife, but I had the privilege and honor to play Division One lacrosse at Rutgers University, and today's guest was my coach during that time in college who really inspired me, jim Stagnita. So I want to take a moment to thank coach for really being on this episode to share with you insights about his journey, his life. That can really again help you move the ball forward. So, jim, welcome to the One Big Thing podcast. We're excited to have you today. Do you want to take a few minutes here at the beginning just to let our listening guests know a little bit about who you are?

Speaker 2: 1:21

Sure. Thanks, steve, it's great to see you, you too. So yeah, I've as Steve said, right, my life has in my family's life because of that has revolved around lacrosse. I've been a lacrosse coach since probably started. About three years after I graduated from college I had the opportunity to return to my alma mater, university of Pennsylvania. Certainly wasn't my plan. My plan was to attend law school. I was working in Albany, new York, studying for my boards, bounced back to Syracuse where I was from, and was really just starting to get ready to embark on that journey. I was coaching some high school and some junior college and was really looking for kind of some graduate assistant opportunities and was able to go back to my alma mater. The graduate assistant piece of it never actually came about, but I kind of, you know, I found a calling.

Speaker 2: 2:23

In a lot of ways, I was fortunate enough to find something that you know I enjoyed doing every day. It was a challenge, something that you know. When you woke up every single day you were excited about what that day was going to bring and the opportunity that you had that day, and you know, I think that that's really important. I don't think a lot of people have jobs or opportunities where they wake up every single day and even in the best of seasons and even in the toughest of times. You know I always enjoyed the fact that I had a challenge to fix it and make a difference. But you know, so, you know, fast forward, I don't know. 30 something years, steve right, I've been. I've been in this, I've started businesses that have been sports related throughout and continue, you know, at this point to, you know, to be kind of an entrepreneur and in that regard, my, you know my, career span from right Division I assistant to being, if not the youngest, one of the youngest head coaches in the country at Washington and Lee, at the age of, you know, 25, 26, fortunate enough to have a really great 13 year run there.

Speaker 2: 3:37

I had an opportunity to come back up to Northeast at Rutgers, where I was for 11 years. My son went on to play lacrosse Division. I lacrosse at Hopkins. After leaving Rutgers, I coached in the professional league for the first time with the Denver Outlaws, returned to college with Penn and then, when my son went on to play, I had made a commitment that I really did want to spend some time and watch him play. I'd been on the road for the previous 20 something years and, you know, continued to coach professionally since Been fortunate enough to be one of the initial coaches in the Premier lacrosse league, which you know, which, if you are a lacrosse fan, it's an unbelievable product that the Rable Brothers have put out and you know I'm honored to be a part of it and you know I own, as I said, throughout these years I've started a number of businesses that have been sports related.

Speaker 2: 4:38

But what I've been doing for the last seven years with Pro Dromo's leadership is kind of a culmination of all my experiences and what I've learned and I'm able to, you know, to put that into use in a kind of consulting, leadership development, personal development, programming for everything from individuals to professional teams, to colleges to corporations, so still keeping pretty busy on both fronts. But again, the you know the coaching foundation is really the base of you know of what my career has been and I've been able to again to parlay that into a number of different type of ventures.

Speaker 1: 5:25

Yeah, and I think it's. It's been something that's been common with each guest on this show, kind of what they had originally started off in life thinking they were going to do for you. You talked about potentially law school and kind of how your life has changed. That's a very common situation that I think a lot of our listeners find themselves in. You know, maybe you started off in you know one area thinking you were going to do one thing with your life, but life happened, opportunities came, you answered every door that opened and now it's not necessarily what you started out on, but I know from a lot of our listeners that they've said they wouldn't have changed anything, they couldn't have predicted it, but they wouldn't change, kind of where they are today. And so I think that's that's really important, that if you find yourself out there listening to this show and maybe you're going down one path in life Brett kind of talked about it in episode three you never know what door is going to open or when the letter is going to come that can change your life and inspire you. And you, you know, have a very prolific career. I want to dive into a lot of it today, but obviously I had firsthand experience with you really as an authority figure in my life, and that's one thing that Rachel and I talked about. A lot of your identity in your you know, late teens, 20s and 30s is really formed through parents, it's formed through coaches, it's formed through managers and CEOs, and you played such a pivotal part in what was a very tough part of my life, dealing with a sports injury and you always instilled confidence in me, both on the field and behind closed doors. And so when I thought about you know, this show and people that I thought could come on and inspire other people, you were one of the top individuals from just my journey, not because of just your coaching accolades which I want to get into today because it is pretty incredible the things that you've been able to achieve as a coach but also kind of diving into your role now as leadership, consulting and really insights that I think could help inspire a lot of our younger listeners that are honestly trying to figure out life and what in the world they're supposed to be doing as parents, as spouses, and so you know your journey has been incredible.

Speaker 1: 7:24

The professional lacrosse league we got listeners that may not even know what lacrosse is If you haven't go watch it on YouTube. It's one of the fastest games on turf. I loved it growing up as a kid and just some of the high level marks that you've been able to make in your career, especially in the professional lacrosse league. You know I was watching a video the other night, kind of a view and, as I say with every guest that I have on, many of them I know personally, but some of them you know I have to do some due diligence on and I just want to, you know, catch up with coach Jim and what he's up to and what I loved was kind of watching your success in the professional lacrosse, the premier lacrosse league, the PLL and just some in just some of your championship experience. Do you want to share a little bit about what that journey was like through all these years coaching to hit that high water mark of winning those championships kind of later in your career?

Speaker 2: 8:16

Yeah, you know, when I look at my career and I look back and it's something that you know again, when I have the, you know the opportunity to interact with coaches or CEOs right of any level high school or college coaches.

Speaker 2: 8:36

You know leaders, managers, as I said, ceos you know one of the things I think is really important, steve, with people and this was again for me, what I've come to. What's become really important to me is that I continue to evolve right, that I continue to be a kind of a lifetime learner. I believe that I can learn and get better every day from every interaction from everyone I deal with Many times when you know my partner and I have programming or interaction with what we call our partners, you know we come away learning sometimes. You know as much as they have right, and I look back sometimes and I look at me at you know at 25 and then I look at me now and in the way I approach things and you know, I think what you have to be careful of throughout your career is how you define success right. If I just define success as wins and losses throughout my career, you know it might be a 50-50 proposition.

Speaker 2: 9:43

You know I've had many more successful seasons than I've had failures. But you know I've had some ups and downs and some tough patches, some by my own doing and some by some you know cards that were dealt me that I, you know, didn't have control of. But when I look back and I look at my career, you know certainly I won championships here later in my career Part of you know part of my MO was kind of you know I was able to come into situations that were struggling and turn them around Absolutely. But you know, when I look at what I would consider some of my greatest successes you know it's a little bit like what you just said right, and I do appreciate it and it really is important to me and it was then is the impact that I've had on people's lives. Right, as I was a young coach, guys were not that much younger than me and you know now guys in their 40s and 50s who have kids now are reaching out and reminding me of interactions or things that happened to them during their career that I handled or helped them or assisted them or gave them insights to or supported them in. And you know, to me it's really humbling because through a lot of that.

Speaker 2: 11:06

I was a young guy and sometimes I look back and a lot of it was organic. It happened just naturally, maybe because of my upbringing, maybe because of my athletic career. But you know, I define my successes. I mean, one of the greatest successes of my career was probably one of the most disappointing situations that, personally and team-wise, that I ever dealt with. But now I look back and I see it as one of my greatest successes.

Speaker 2: 11:41

So I think we always have to be careful about how we define success. You know one of the problems with high achievers that we see and again, I was one of those guys I got into lacrosse because I just loved being in the locker room. I love the sport, I really had a commitment to development and making people better. But then once you start to find that success and you become a coach of the year and you turn around some programs and you become, you know, you gain this notoriety.

Speaker 2: 12:15

You don't tend to sit back and enjoy it, right. You don't appreciate those things. You're always looking for that next great thing, right. When you look for that next great thing, you miss all of these parts of the journey and throughout my career and at some points. I kind of lost focus of that right. But when I was able to hit that reset button and go back to my real purpose for doing it I always could I found that balance again. So my successes and when we started to win championships at the PLL level, at the highest level, I still look back and say that my greatest successes were not the championship seasons or the coach of the year honors. It's been the journey and the friends and the impact that I've been able to make and again to me it's really humbling.

Speaker 1: 13:14

Well and I think for your journey as a coach for people that didn't know. Not only did you win a championship at the highest level one year, you repeated as champions the next year, which to any coach, to any sports athlete, it is very hard at any level of sports to repeat success year after year in the same capacity. So that is a testament to you as a person. But something you just said that I found fascinating and I don't know if there was necessarily a blueprint for how you did this but one thing that you had just mentioned was that you kind of lost focus along the way and you had to kind of reset. Was there anything intentionally that you did that helped you? Was there any train of thought or just the way you went about your days that kind of helped you work through getting that focus back. That could maybe help somebody that could raise their hand and honestly say I've kind of lost focus a little bit too.

Speaker 2: 14:08

Yeah, look, it was kind of on the back half of my time at Rutgers. I had been successful. I had never had a losing season. I don't think I had a season. Well, my first year at Rutgers was a turnaround year and then year two and three were in the NCAA tournament and coach of the year and having these great seasons. And again he did it again. Look at what he's accomplished.

Speaker 2: 14:34

But, that being said, I had some things that were out of my control, some NCAA stuff that took place before I got there and things that we didn't talk about at the time Loss of scholarship, significant scholarship loss, cutting down a team cap significantly. I was hamstrung and instead of, while I embraced it, I have always said control what you can control what I did during that period of time was, instead of just focusing on kind of the development and getting the most I could out of the people that were there and the people that were there, they deserved a little bit better at that time because they came in with very little to no scholarship money and were willing to do something for the program and for me as the coach. That was a little bit different from what other division one athletes were doing at the time. They showed up with a belief and not a lot of money and a promise and they fulfilled their commitment and their obligation. And what I did at that point was when we weren't we were close, we were losing a lot of close games with guys who were just playing as hard as they possibly could. We weren't as talented at that time as our competition, necessarily, and we weren't as deep and we certainly didn't have the resources that other people had, but we were right there, but we weren't winning and what I did was I just pushed harder, I tried to squeeze harder, I tried to get more out of people, which I've always done and been successful, but it was to. It was to success. I was trying to eliminate out of lemons at the time and I was not doing it in a way that was necessarily positive or developmental or honestly, steven, it was fair to guys and I was miserable Losses and this is when you know you really need to change something right, when wins become a relief and losses are physically painful. And I was no longer at a point, I was no longer working in the best interest of what I considered the players. I was working towards my self interest and my you know this is me. We should be winning, I've got to win and it's part of the challenge I think.

Speaker 2: 17:30

You see, in all athletics you know, not just big time athletics right, when you're under pressure, whether it's real or perceived, you tend to go away from your morals. Right, you tend to do things that you wouldn't necessarily do if it was just, if you were just left to your own devices without the pressure of being successful. And you know what, in my wife, when you're in any type of occupation where there's this type of stress and pressure, my wife was always the one that brought me back. Always my team was about my family, you know this. They would come to my house, we'd have dinner, all you know. We there, you know, to this day, some of the people I spent more time with players than I did with my children when they were young. I was on, you know. In my wife, you know, helped me, not just help, but really said look, if you can't do this the way you, you know the way you know it needs to be done, and if you can't do it in a way that is going to make you happy anymore, then you shouldn't be doing it because you're not doing anyone. You know you're doing everyone a disservice your players, yourself and your family.

Speaker 2: 18:55

And you know, at that point in my career I really had to hit a reset. I had to evaluate why did I do this in the first place? And I didn't do it to win championships, I didn't do it to win coach of the year, right. I didn't do it for the accolades, I did it because I love the game, I love the locker room, I love developing people, I loved being able to help people and you know, for you know it wasn't a long, long period of time, but it was a, you know, it was a season.

Speaker 2: 19:21

I got away from it and I wasn't me. I wasn't accomplishing what I had done. And, by the way, one of the reasons that I think were successful I've been successful at every level is because of the communication and that I truly care about the people in the locker room, whether you're the star player or you're the guy who's just coming to practice every day and working hard. So you know that to me, success in the way I define success as I look back on my career is not on the championships, it's on the people. And again, this is. I think it's really important. It's the legacy in what I've. You know the impact that I've had, hopefully on people.

Speaker 1: 20:08

Well, I think you've touched on that and I can tell you somebody that had the honor of playing under you that that's definitely an impact that you made. Whether we knew what you were dealing with behind the scenes or not. You know we still looked at you as the lead of our team and the dividends that that's paid when you know guys come back on campus or they want to see you and they reach out to you, and I think you know this has been another common theme that's come up with all of my guests. None of us ever have any idea when controversy or drama or situations are coming down the pipeline, because if we actually knew and could plan for it, we would probably fail miserably. We'd become so overwhelmed if we knew what was just around the corner, whether that's in your career and situations you're going through, that you didn't ask for. Whether that's like Bradley talked about on the last episode walking out of a gym in the peak of his health career and not knowing where he was because he had a stroke that no one told him he was going to have In just situations that we all find ourselves in. But what I think is incredible is it's what you do with that in those situations that you didn't ask for, that really shapes who you are as a person and a common thing that's come out from a lot of these conversations.

Speaker 1: 21:21

You know, my wife was my very first guest on this show because she's the behind the scenes one that challenges me in a way that no one else can. And you could be a colleague of mine and say something to me. I can brush it off. You know, you could be a friend, you can brush it off. But, man, when it's your spouse and they put their finger on the thing that you don't want to hear in the moment that you don't want to hear, boy, it cuts like a knife. But if you're honest with yourself, if you will really think about what was said, it's pretty revealing how spot on our spouses can be with things that challenge us, maybe in a way that probably in your world you know, administrative people try to. But when your spouse is the one bringing things to your corner, man, those are the crisis moments that it's what you do with it that really shapes what the next 20, 30 years are going to look like, because we all get glimpses of parts of our life that are ugly, that are blind spots. But what you find is, at least in my life, people that become victims in life are the ones that don't deal with the things that, as they come up, it's always somebody else's fault. You didn't ask to have these scholarships taken from you. It was just the cards. You were dealt, as you said, but it was the fact that you recognized I got it. I got a hit time out here. This isn't, this is. I'm not the person I thought I was going to be, and it may not be coaching.

Speaker 1: 22:43

You know you got a lot of young people that are stuck in their marriage. Their marriage isn't what they thought it was going to be. They're raising kids. They're not the parent that they ever thought they were going to be. They've said things to their kids or thought things inside about their kids. That boy they never imagined when they thought about having kids would ever be present. And these are revealing moments for all of us where it's like where did this come from? And why am I responding this way?

Speaker 1: 23:10

Whether it's in work as a coach, in your personal life, in your marriage or with your kids, or just the way you are living your life and the legacy and that's such a key point too there's so many, there's so many people that are in their 20s, 30s and 40s. That is really the demographic of this show, as far as listeners go, that don't have a long term view of their legacy. Everything is so seasonal, it's chapter by chapter. It's surviving today that it's very hard for many of us to actually, in the concept of time, be able to realize man, I'm in my mid 30s right now, but it's a long term play. I'm working towards a legacy that's really hard to define right now, but every decision that I make or every inaction that I don't make can affect the legacy of the way my kids view me or my spouse views me.

Speaker 1: 23:58

And so, even in your world, what I would say is it's got to be so much harder being a coach because, even though you don't want to be defined by wins or losses, so much of what you do is defined by wins or losses with us in our working fields. Man, if we blow a meeting with a client or whatever, it doesn't count as a demerit against us. Yeah, maybe it's a learning opportunity. If you blow it with your kids, there's not a win-loss record. As a parent, you just have this internal self-reflection.

Speaker 1: 24:27

But when you're a coach and that is got to be so hard for part of your journey, where you've been a winner everywhere you've been and here was a situation that you just shared about where it wasn't working the way that you thought many times beyond your control, but how that wasn't the end of the story for you and how you were able to take that very real, raw moment of this isn't the person I'm, not the person I thought I was going to be in this moment, in how now, looking back over the last 20 years, the success you've had to help any listener out there realize the season you're in is temporary, but it's what you do with it in this moment right now that is really going to set up the future that none of us know is going to come.

Speaker 1: 25:08

But all the accolades and you've gone on to win coach the year at almost every level you've coached at. So I just think it's very cool if somebody that played under you, that that time that you were there, those 11 years, didn't force you down a path of negativity, but how you were able to come through it and that's probably launched you into a lot of what you're doing now with these side businesses, with leadership, you're speaking from a place of real experience of what you've been through and teaching. So I know you've coached. I know you've talked about leadership as you've been looking back over these years and kind of what you're doing now. What are some of the maybe biggest takeaways that, when you get a chance to speak to players or business owners or whoever is, are there typical life lessons or themes that you find resonate with wherever people are in life, organizations or sports, academics? Are there certain themes that you've realized in your consulting field that really resonate or bring us all into this human experience of we all kind of go through these things?

Speaker 2: 26:10

Yeah, you know you had a great point. I'm going to backtrack first before I touch on that. You know, when you hit that reset button or you stay true to yourself and your beliefs, the outcome at that time in my case wins and losses or decisions that I made that I felt good about and was doing the right thing. At the time. It did not serve me well, but at this point in my life I would really regret if I had done it in a different way. Right, if I had let all those guys go that came in with no money and just restacked the deck, like some people thought I should have. Those guys deserve better than that. And you know, one thing I've always been is loyal, you know, and that's not the first time in my career that that has been the case. Right, I can always, hopefully, find a way to take care of the people who have had the best interest of the team and the organization in mind. You know, and again, if I look back and I had done some of the things that maybe some people thought I should have done at that time, I'm not sure I'd feel very good about myself and I don't think there'd be, you know, and I think there'd be people out there that would have had a negative impact on them in their lives. So, you know, short of that period of time, which I believe I salvaged by my final decisions, you know I look back and I'm comfortable with the decisions I made and we have to live with the decisions we make. Right, every decision we make has a you know there's an outcome, you know. So, that being said, you know over. You know over a career, right, what do you look at Like, what is, what is there? At the end of the day, it's your legacy, right, it's, you know, as a leader. You're judged by the people that you lead. Right, how they act, the decisions they make, the people they become. That's a direct reflection on you and, in the you know, it's a direct reflection on you and the impact you've had on those people. Right, I have become so much better as my career has progressed.

Speaker 2: 28:49

I think I've always communicated. You know it is important to me to communicate individually and as a group and to know the people and to know their challenges and to be there to support them and help them. But look at the end of the day, if your people believe that you have their best interest in mind and they believe that you care about them, they will do anything for you. You can coach them hard, you can push them, you can demand of them, but if they believe that you care about them and you have their best interests in mind, you know, even with the professionals, right, it's a little bit different because there is a business piece to it.

Speaker 2: 29:26

But, you know, one of the things that I get everyone to try to get everyone to understand is what happens during those 48 minutes in a pro game or 60 minutes during a college game. You know, that is that's the game, right. The rest of it is what's really important, right? So I, you know, I believe that you know, you, it's important to you, know to really try to understand, right, we all tend to commit things from our own perspective. A kid's not working hard, or he's late for something, for things, or he's just not performing, or you just recognize that he's not right in one way or another. You know, we, we tend to assume, right, we tend to make assumptions oh, he doesn't care, it's not important to him, he's not a team guy.

Speaker 2: 30:19

You know, in what I've learned over time and I learned this at a young age, but it's really even more important as I, as I get older and particularly professionals, is to be more curious. Right, to ask more questions. Hey, I noticed this happened or I noticed that you're, I noticed this or I see this. Can you tell me about it? Right, because if you don't, it just comes from your own personal perspective and that's just you. Right, it's not an informed. It's not an informed decision, it's not an informed thought. So you know, I've become much more curious in in in my approach to both coaching and in development, and in leadership right and communication wise.

Speaker 2: 31:05

You know, at the top, you don't always have all the answers right. In fact, you know more times than not, if you don't have the right perspective, you're not going to have the right answer. Yeah, if, if, if your people and your players or the people in your organization are participants in decisions or in policy, it's theirs. Right, giving people ownership, giving the people around you the opportunity to, you know, to be part of the solution, right, then they own it, then it's theirs, it's not just yours. You know there's so many little things. I've learned right Over the years is that you know success, you know failure. If you don't fail, you can't learn right, and failure is fine as long as it's not out of negligence and people don't fail and do things wrong on purpose. You know there's there's. There's so many little things that I get to share right now that if I knew them when I was 25, 30, 35 years old, I can't imagine how much more effective I could have been at that point in my career.

Speaker 1: 32:12

Yeah, I mean anything just along those lines that you know, if you had an opportunity to share, kind of the, the cheat package if you will, not not the fast pass to life, but looking Jim, looking back on his life, if you had a group of young people that you know are trying to figure things out.

Speaker 1: 32:29

A lot of our listeners are thrust into leadership positions right now in their careers and organizations that they don't feel qualified. They may never say that out loud, but maybe they've been moved up to ranks, they've been promoted, they've been put in positions where they have to make decisions which can affect the bottom lines of businesses or the health of their families, and that that's a challenging place. When you are honest with yourself and say I'm still trying to figure out myself, let alone all these people that are responsible under my care, what would be kind of the biggest life lessons? Take a ways or little life nuggets that you could give to somebody that you wish you had known kind of in your 30s that now, looking back, you know through wisdom and experience you're like man. I wish I had known this aspect about life because it would have helped me so much.

Speaker 2: 33:21

You know, see, I think I did this pretty consistently, but I'm not sure I did it in a way, always that was as understood, maybe, as it should have been right. So, you know, leadership is a verb. Leading is getting someone to do something. It takes action right. People talk about leading by example. When you lead by example, I feel like you're doing what you're supposed to do right. And how do other people know that that's the right thing to do right? Leadership takes work. You have to act and you have to get people to act. But in order to lead people, I think you have to inspire them. You have to get them to believe that they can do something right. You have to have that faith in them and you have to instill that. You know, I believe that you can do this. I. You know, it's helping people overcome fear and, like I said, as a leader, if you have the fear of bottom lines and you fear the failure and you fear the end result, you miss the process. So I think the most important I think the most important and this is what you talked about winning back-to-back championships One of the most important things I've learned over time is that it's the process that you have to focus on, not the outcome, right.

Speaker 2: 34:48

If you're just focusing on the wins and losses, if you're focusing on the bottom line, you're missing all the things in between that are important to get you there, to getting you there right. And when we talk about repeating this champions, we don't. We talk about the process. We talk about what we need to do week in and week out to get us there right. You can't win championships, you can't hit bottom lines, unless you do the things along the way you know to get there. And then, when you get there, what you have to do in order to stay there is you have to evaluate the process again, right, not just not the outcome, the process, and look as the person who leads that process.

Speaker 2: 35:27

I think there's certain traits that you need to have and master that I think the best coaches and leaders have, and the first one I talked about is curiosity. Right, you have to ask questions. You have to understand, right, because you can't solve a problem unless you really understand and know what it is. Right, we can't assume we know the answer and we can't assume we know the problem. If we don't ask people right, then when you're going to ask people questions. You have to have humility, right. You have to be and, again, this heart is a young coach, right, it's hard for any coach because you're supposed to have all the answers.

Speaker 2: 36:03

Well, leaders don't have all the answers right, you have to be, you have to have the humility to ask, and when you ask questions, you have to be willing to hear the answer, right. And you have to be willing to not take, to not be upset or to push back. You have to be willing to consider what you hear, right. And then you have to have empathy. You have to put yourself in other people's positions.

Speaker 2: 36:32

When I'm pushing these guys harder than they've ever been pushed and they're trying to do everything they can, I didn't have the empathy at that time to understand, or I didn't. I had empathy, but you know what? I wasn't. I wasn't using it to understand what it was like to be in their position and have me pushing them like that. So you know, as a leader in any business, right, when you're pushing someone hard to get to a bottom line, there's got to be some empathy there to understand what it's like to be able to actually put yourself in that position. And I'm not talking about sympathy, right, sympathy is just, oh, I feel sorry for you.

Speaker 2: 37:07

Empathy is actually participating and say, putting yourself in someone's position and trying to help solve that and at the end of the day, you know, steven, this is a tough one, right? There's loyalty and as a leader, you have to be loyal, and as a young person, you have to be loyal. But loyalty can't be blind. Sometime loyalty is hey, I love you, I appreciate you, but, man, I do not agree with what you just did and you know I'm going to help you and support you and I think that's something that I was. Really, if I can say, there's one area I stayed consistent with and was good at and maybe it's because, you know, I had made my share of mistakes as a college athlete and throughout my life is it when someone, you know, when one of my guys, took a misstep or did something wrong, regardless. Okay, I was there to tell them. You know, look, I love you, I appreciate you, but this is unacceptable and you know you're going to. You know you're going to face the. You know the. You're going to face the ramifications of this, but I'm going to help you. But you know here's and here's the plan that we're going to follow and I'm going to support you, and you know. But again, I'm not going to tell you this is right.

Speaker 2: 38:23

Right, and sometimes we have to judge the action, not the actor. Right, and again I was. We take things personally. When people do things that we, you know, we got people on our team or people we support, or people that work for us, we tend to be disappointed. Right, let's be disappointed in the action, even with our kids. Right, let's be disappointed in the action, not the actor.

Speaker 1: 38:46

Well, you just covered so much and what a framework. But thinking back to part of the conversation with that tough, tough time coaching, you thought the answer was just to try harder to squeeze more, and I think that's maybe where a lot of people find themselves when they're backed up against the wall. If I just try harder in my career, if I just try harder as a parent, if I just try harder with my marriage, then then I must get more from it. But that's not always the result, because many times we need to take a step back to honestly move forward, and there is a lot of things that people need to self reflect on before they ever bring a situation to another party, be it your spouse, be it your kids, be an organization. And that framework that you just laid out of asking questions, having humility but also having empathy, you nailed it on the head that when you're leading people, whether it's your children, your spouse or in the work field, you can say there's always an open door and tell people that you're always approachable, that you're always available, but your body language, your disposition and the way that you're responding before they ever ask the question can completely negate what you've said. Is the situation. So learning to come from a place of. If you want to ask questions, then be willing to listen. And if you're going to listen, have the humility to understand that you may not understand the entire situation, because we all have situations at work with colleagues that we struggle with or family members or would have you.

Speaker 1: 40:18

But unless you've walked in their shoes and have empathy for them, you don't know that they may be struggling with infertility. You don't know that they may be struggling with raising a kid that they just can't at night. This is the kid that they talk about, that they can't get to do what they want to do and is causing trouble in school. So now they're showing up at work the next day and what you're getting is the raw reaction of the fact that there's things going on in their inner life and inner world and you just think, you know you don't want to be around them. They're toxic.

Speaker 1: 40:46

But if you don't take the time to ask those questions and understand what they're going through, but not because you're trying to fix them and I think that's when my experience, what I've had to learn the hard way, is it's not my job to fix people, but it's my job. This is why I have this show to encourage people, to inspire them to ask great questions, because your story, even if you have somebody in their 20s or 30s, they can take a lot from you, just as they did from Bradley, just as they did with Rachel, because we're all human beings and it's what you do with the information that you receive which defines what the next chapter of your life is going to look like. So, for people that are out there today, and even just the last part that you hit on, it's that you don't agree People have to learn to develop confidence in a way that, living within your morals, living within your values, if there are friendships, if there's relationships, colleagues, what have you and you don't agree with? The way somebody's doing something, having the heart to have a conversation with somebody, that you love them enough to share these things with them, and obviously it's on them how they receive that information. But whether it's your players that you spoke about, hey, here's the deal. This happened. We're going to have to work through it, but you know what? I'm willing to help you.

Speaker 1: 42:04

There are a lot of people that are out there today that wish they had somebody that'd be willing to be what Coach Jim Stagnita is to them in their real life, to recognize them, to see them, to understand what they're going through, and not just to share all your intimate details with me and then good luck, you're on your own.

Speaker 1: 42:26

But when people are raw and authentic enough to say, jim, I'm struggling, I may give off this persona of I know what I'm doing all the time and I'm this, but my wife and I are struggling.

Speaker 1: 42:39

It's real friendship. When you go, hey, let's hang out there for a minute, tell me what's going on, you know I had no idea. But then being willing to take the extra step and say you don't even have to tell them I'm helping you, right, but just being willing in your own heart disposition to say, wow, this person needs me, because you have no idea how that single act of kindness could spark a life change in a way that, if people are, maybe you've never coached, maybe you've never won awards, and I got to imagine there's people in all of our lives right now that if we were being really honest with our situation, we could be handling those relationships in a much more authentic and honest way. That could really help inspire that person to go be the best person that they could be, which could spark another person and another person. So I love that framework that you shared, because it is extremely helpful for all of us that are trying to navigate relationships and situations.

Speaker 2: 43:36

Yeah, there's a concept that we talk about and it really it's something that hits home with me as we started to develop these concepts, and it's as a leader. Like you said, we have bottom lines and wins and losses and things that worse. And as a young leader in particular, we tend to want people around us who are obedient, right, who do what we ask them to do, do what we tell them to do. When I was a young coach, I wanted my guys were obedient. I was young, they were obedient. I asked them to do something. They did it. I mean, I just had the same situation this weekend on TV and again, right, I have a guy who I'll tell you the story. But, first and foremost, when your people are obedient and when the people around you are obedient number one, they're afraid, they're afraid to make mistakes, they're afraid to, they don't evolve right, they're not going to be creative, they're only going to do exactly what you ask them to do, right. Yep, and so you know, from a lacrosse frame, you know we were. I'm coaching at Washington and Lee. It's probably my first year my I call it timeout and I set up a play against a man-to-man offense or defense and my team goes out and the other team's in a zone, and you know what my team does? They run the man-to-man play. You know why? Because they're obedient. You know do exactly what I said they're afraid to innovate, they're afraid to make a decision, they're afraid to make an adjustment. I wasn't preparing them for the unknown, I wasn't creating resilience in them, right? All they were doing was what they were told Fast forward X number of years.

Speaker 2: 45:32

I take input on everything we do. I ask questions in the huddle. Now I am the leader. I have to make the final decision. I want to hear what they say, I want to know what they're thinking. I want them to be comfortable and I do this. This is the same. It's across the board. Everything I've ever done and learned in sports works in the boardroom, it works in corporate, it works on factory floors, it works with professional coaches and athletes. It's the same.

Speaker 2: 45:59

You know, I take input, I want to hear right, and then I make that decision. And there's times when I have to do, I guys have to be obedient, and there's times, which is very few. But I want them to be able to go out there and make their own decisions, because if they don't, they're always going to be relying on me, right? So my organization can be successful if everybody's waiting for me to make a decision and they can't make a decision on their own? So what I want and I think what we want, is leaders and coaches and even as parents.

Speaker 2: 46:33

Right, we want discipline and to me, discipline is doing the right thing at the right time for the right reason, regardless of the outcome. There's no rules anymore in my life. There's guidelines, because guidelines can give you a direction, but you know what, at the end of the day, if you have rules, they're going to be broken. Every situation is different, right? So at the end of the day, you know we want discipline instead of obedience. Obedience stifles growth. It stifles end result and success. So you know, I have become. I mean, the idea of obedience to me is. It's funny for someone who that was such an important part of what I did at one point in my career that I look at it now and I go, oh my God, I can't believe that that was the thought process at that time.

Speaker 1: 47:27

And I think that's such a key point for all of us who you know where you were. Maybe you know 20, 30 years ago where you're going out every day to make a paycheck, to have a career. You know you're going to provide for your family. Then you come home and you have kids, and now you know you never get a break. You just now have to go into that realm and be a parent and I think it's learning how to celebrate I don't even want to call it success, but just wins in the natural way of life. You know our kids. We have four kids under seven years old. So I have a seven-year-old son, a six-year-old son and then identical twin girls that are three. I mean, jim, I basically have a varsity lacrosse team in my house of kids that are freshmen to seniors. All in the same. They're all learning together and there's definitely days where it's frustrating, because you want that obedience, you want that discipline. It's hey, I told you to do this, why can't you help me, why can't you do it? And you forget they're seven years old, right? And what happens is our kids, I have found, tend to be more loose when they're with us as parents. They tend to be more fun. They tend to be more crazy. But, man, when they're in school they're good kids and I think, as parents, it's so hard when they're not doing the things at home that you wished or that you had hoped, that you feel like maybe you're failing as a parent. You know why can't they pick up after themselves, why can't they do the things we asked them to do? But what my wife and I have tried to do and it's not always easy is when that teacher says you know, your son is one of the best kids in our class is not to become embittered that why can't he do that at home? But it's to learn to celebrate that, at least within the people we want him to do that in front of. But man, destroy our house if you have to, if that's what it leads to.

Speaker 1: 49:07

We're still working on the other side, but it's learning how to, in this season of life, as young people celebrate wins as they come along, not to stay there but to recognize that not everything is going to be easy. And that's what we've talked about a lot in the show is you get the ability to choose your hard. Marriage is hard, parenting is hard, coaching is hard, but it's those breakthroughs in those little moments, those team successes, that can build you up and that can lead you and that can inspire you to go help other people. So I love you. Know, some of what you said to and I had wrote this down is I used to have this saying that I would tell myself all the time that life is not about perfection, it's about progress. And at 36, I can tell you that I'm wiser, hopefully, than I was at 30, than I was at 25, that I was at 20. And it's learning how to you know, recognize and self-evaluate. What are things that I can do, not just to be better for the sake of being better, but to improve as a father, as a husband, in the workforce, by listening to people that are further along down the road, that are sharing backwards insights that have helped them. Take that stuff, apply it to your life. But then also, how are you inspiring people that are in the same season as you? Because we're all searching for hope right now. There's so many people that just feel lost, they feel stuck, so much of the world's being thrown at them and just the framework that I think you've given today and some of these, you know, trains of thoughts around your coaching and what you've learned are so applicable. But I also and we didn't talk about this at the beginning I also want to give young people the permission to also have some kind of mechanism in your mind to know when you've done everything that you feel you're supposed to do. Maybe you listened to this episode. You've taken all the personal application that you shared. You're going into your workforce and you're trying to implement this, but the people in front of you, the authority figures they're not moving in the same direction that you are.

Speaker 1: 51:08

You also have the ability that, if you've put your heart in the right position and you really aren't humility trying to make things work there are certain times that, especially as young people, you have to make a decision, which is do I continue to stay in this environment that is honestly stymied my growth, if you've done everything you're supposed to, or when do you need to begin to bet on yourself that maybe there's something else out there, a different culture, a different work environment where people really do appreciate the things you're talking about?

Speaker 1: 51:37

And there is a huge difference between you didn't try. You blew people off, you're mad at management or you're mad at the executives in front of you and so screw them. I'm going to go get another job versus Jim. I'm taking everything you're saying today and I'm going to at least try to implement this stuff in my life.

Speaker 1: 51:54

And if you can help turn around cultures, like you did with teams, go do it. God bless it. That's exciting to know that you could be an agent of change in the place that you work, but to also give you the ability to know that, if you've tried to do some of these things but the people in front of you aren't willing to be open to some of what you talked about, to kind of have a mechanism to know maybe when it's time to either go seek out a different opportunity and I don't know if you've ever spoken about that in your leadership, but just how do you know for some of those people that might be in the midst of this, how do you know it's time for a change? And do you have any recommendations from your experience of just things that you would share with somebody who feels kind of stuck with the situation they're in?

Speaker 2: 52:40

You know we've um it's a great question. I was just thinking about that as you were talking through this Um, you know what we have started to do and again I'm going to give you a front end answer and then I'm going to give you the individual side of it. We have started to uh, when we work with and again we've worked with professional teams, um, we've worked with, you know, head coaches, staffs We've worked with with major corporations and you know, if the leader is not willing to evolve and does not have that humility and thinks we're just a magic dart and they're going to check off a box, we learned early in our, you know, in our experience that when we do our our initial um, when we have our initial conversations and we do our initial kind of reconnaissance with them, if we sense or we, we, because we will push and we'll challenge right away that the leader and the leadership and the people at the top are not, you know, willing to open up and have humility and evolve, we won't work with them.

Speaker 2: 53:53

Um, because it's just, it's not, it's not in their best interest, it's not in ours. Um, when you are in a situation where um, it goes right back to what I said, stephen, and I think you can put this into context in anything you do, right, for me it was when the winds were, were just a relief and the losses were painful, okay, when you wake up and you don't want to go to work, when you wake up and you feel helpless, or you're at work and you feel like there, there's, there's nothing you can do, um, to you know, to solve a problem, there's, there's, there's no opportunity for you to grow and evolve, and and you feel like you're, you're not being heard. Right, that's a big part of a culture, right? Are you being heard? Do you feel like you're being appreciated? Right, and appreciation leaders have to appreciate people.

Speaker 2: 54:51

If, if you don't feel heard, appreciated, and you feel like you're stuck, um, that's when you start to do the stuff that that we talked about. Right, you feel like you're I'm going to work harder. Well, you work harder, but you're not working smarter, which is a real thing, right? Um, you tend to go away from your, your, your course and who you are, and when you start to do that. You know either you have to recognize it or you have to have that significant other in your life, like our wives who, who tell you hey, you know that's, you're not going, you're not handling this right, you're not going in the right direction, you need to change and you need to adjust this, or you know it's it's before it becomes even more of a problem, where you get to a point where you know you're not going to be able to get out.

Speaker 1: 55:44

And I think that happens to a lot of people.

Speaker 2: 55:46

I think they stay too long and they eventually can't get out.

Speaker 1: 55:49

Yeah, because maybe they just maybe they just don't know some, some practical ways to do it. And and where I want to challenge our listeners is if going to work makes you embittered, then then how can you be the parent that you're supposed to be? Because, whether you realize it or not, if during your nine to five or whatever work you do, you hate being there, it is very hard for us to separate something that consumes 70 to 80% of our lives, which is our work, to then all of a sudden put a happy face, come home and be the intentional parent that you need to be with your kids or to love your spouse, because you're thinking about work the next day. And even in my own personal career and kind of where we are today, I would have never thought that I'd be owning a business with my business partners and being a podcaster. That was never on the docket, but I remember those days when I was in my corporate job and putting out fires every single day and I thought this is not what I want to do.

Speaker 1: 56:46

And I think there's a lot of people that are listening to this show. Some of them might be in, you know, cloud nine of their life. They're living their best life and you keep doing that. But there's some people that are tuning into this episode today and saying you know, jim, I want to apply some of the things that you talk about, but I don't know if if I'm in the right situation to do that, and I want to challenge you as somebody that is the age of our listeners there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. Don't get just fed up with the fact that things aren't going the way that you want to go, that you just quit your job and you don't even know what comes next. Be wise, be smart.

Speaker 1: 57:23

In 2023, we've never been more connected to other people. It's okay to send messages to people that you know, companies that you admire, or to reach out to people that have been a part of your journey and your life and say you know, jim, do you know of anybody that's hiring? I'm looking for a role while you're still in your job, trying to make it work and be smart about how you do it, but you got to be on the same page with your spouse. But I want to challenge people that if, if the last few years between COVID health concerns, we realize how incredibly short life is in in. The last thing that you want to do is spend years of your life in a place far too long that you become a shell of yourself, for not your staff members, but for the people that really truly are dependent upon you, which is your family, it's your spouse, it's your kids.

Speaker 1: 58:11

And if you find that you're in a position where man you just don't want to do today because it's tied to a job, it might be the right time to start looking for something different. But be wise about the way you go through it. So, jim, I want to thank you for kind of what you've shared in this episode. I think it's really going to help inspire a lot of people, and I kind of mentioned here at the beginning that one of the practical things that I like to do with listeners is this concept of start, stop, continue and this could be as applicable in your life as it is but you can share something that you want to continue doing that's going well, something that you want to start doing could be an aspiration, but something you know like you need to stop doing. That you think could help inspire some of our listeners.

Speaker 2: 58:57

Yeah, it's funny because it's something I think about all the time, right, and I talk about. I always say I'm going to do these things and there's just. There's a handful of things I mean. I live what I, where I am now, is a place I never could have imagined. I live at the shore. I'm an upstate New York guy who lives, you know, a block and a half from the ocean. You know I get to travel all over the country between coaching and work. My wife paid me, you know, in a compliment the other day. They really resonates with me, right, our kids want to be with us. They come down to the beach, they come down to Florida and I'm not sure that was the case when I was, you know, when I was in that place during that point in my career. And, as she said, you know I've become a better parent on the guy they come to now with things and you know it's so.

Speaker 2: 59:56

There's, you know, and people would look at you and go well, why do you continue to even do the things that you do at this point in your career? Like you know, you travel all over the place. You fly. You know X number of times a month what I want to continue to do is I want to continue to use all the experiences and that I've gained throughout my career and I want to continue to help people to evolve and develop, even with, you know, with lacrosse stuff, all the events I started the first, you know, team tournaments, which I look back now and I go you know, I hope I'm not the reason that this is crazy, it is right now.

Speaker 2: 1:00:33

But what I do now is I've gone back to the teaching piece. Right, I just ran a camp with 10 college coaches, like the old days, and the coaches loved working with other coaches. The young coaches got to see the older coaches and they worked together and they learned they don't collaborate anymore like they used to. So to me, to be able to continue to help people develop, to help them grow, to help them to not maybe you know you're going to have to make mistakes, but to give them some insights, to maybe not have to learn the lessons, is you know the way I had to learn them right and to help them to jump start and you know their careers and get through some of these lows that we all run into, you know, a little easier than they would have.

Speaker 2: 1:01:14

So developing and helping people, and that was my, you know, that was why I got into coaching in the first place. So I've kind of come full circle, you know, with that, steve, I loved along the lines of that, you know, and it's part of it is finding time. You know I'd love to, you know, I'd love to put what I've done, I'd like to put pen to paper. I started it here. At times I'd love to be able to write a book.

Speaker 1: 1:01:39

Come on, jim, I gotta find it, I know.

Speaker 2: 1:01:42

I gotta find the time to be able to do it. And you know, there's other things I'd really like, you know, being a coach my whole life and in working and doing all this stuff, like, I don't have a lot of hobbies. And there's things I want to do, right, and I want to travel. I, my kids, have been all over the world, right, and I've been to Canada, mostly to recruit. So, you know, I'd like to be able to do things, but I'd like to do it with them, right, I really want to enjoy this time with my wife, who was, you know, who was a coach and who was an athlete, a two sport athlete in college, and who you know, has gotten me through all of this and has really, you know, been the one who you know she's raised me over the years. In a way, my parents have raised me right. She's helped me become and grow what do I not want to do anymore? She tells me all the time you know, you help all these people. You do all these. You know you work with these big time coaches, you work with these corporations.

Speaker 2: 1:02:50

I need you to do what you say more often, right, and it's true, right. I have to be, I have to be a better version. I have to be a better version of me, because I'm not always the, you know, I'm not always the one who does what you know. We all fall back at times, right, and I want to, you know. I want to be better at not falling back. I always catch myself right. It's nothing like it used to be. But there's times where I say, you know what I would tell my if I was consulting or working with someone or developing them, I would tell them to do exactly, not what I just did.

Speaker 1: 1:03:28

So being able to, you know, to be a little more consistent in that, Well, I think what's great about that start, stop, continue for you is, even if you're real and honest about yourself right now as a parent, where maybe you wouldn't even want to be around yourself, you've blown it with your kids. Story's not over. You got time, it's, but what are you going to do with it? If you've recognized through this podcast episode man, he's kind of put his finger on some of the stuff that's not so pretty in my life what are you going to do with it? And I think that's the whole point of why I started the show, which is, once you become aware of something that you want to change in your life, what are the steps that you need to take to improve, to not be perfect, but to at least move the ball forward and make progress? So your story is a testament to that that you're somebody that your kids want to be around now, which I think is aspirational for all of us that, no matter where you are today, it's not the end of the story. We can always be better and improve in ways that people are attracted to. But I think you also nailed something too. And when you're a person of influence, when you're a person who puts yourself out there.

Speaker 1: 1:04:33

It's so easy, even as parents, to tell your kids you can do anything you want to do and you really truly believe it. Because you want to inspire them, you want them to believe in their core that they can do anything, and yet you don't feel you can lose weight, yet you don't feel you can go start a business, yet you don't feel like you can do half the things that you tell other people that you truly believe about yourself. And so you know I'm not talking about the self love, self care, weird stuff but just what are the things that you so easily tell other people that you truthfully need to start believing about yourself? Because we can be our own worst critic, and these may never be words that we say out loud that no one sees it. Because, again, talk about all the time social media. We put only the good out there. You know about what we want people to see, but there are some people that are dealing with some very negative trains of thought about themselves, whether those were things that were spoken over them growing up, whether it's through failures that they've experienced. You got to learn to set yourself free and give yourself permission to know that what you are telling other people you can do you also, with the right keys, can start to make progress in your life.

Speaker 1: 1:05:38

So a couple of things from this episode. Now I know that I can. I can wait for that book to hit shelves for you, jim, and to also see you travel and to really celebrate, I think, the good that your wife and you she may have never been on the sideline with a whistle coaching with you, but any one of your players will know that we used to come over for team meals and spend time. She was that motherly figure that a lot of us needed in those formidable years to know that you know we could do it, and so getting out and celebrating those things I think would be huge. As we bring this episode to a close, if Jim has inspired you, if you'd love to get in touch with him, we will include, obviously, in the show notes some of his contact information so you can reach out to him to get more information. He is an incredible coach, motivator, leader, consultant and again, my big ask is if this show, just like any of these episodes, has ever inspired you, share this with other people. But also, you know, if you'd be willing to get on, leave a writing, a write up and review about what this episode meant. You never know how your words could inspire somebody else to want to take a listen. So, jim, after almost a decade of being a part and spending our time together, I love that.

Speaker 1: 1:06:47

Life always comes full circle so I want to, as the host of the show, thank you for coming on the One Big Thing podcast and sharing all that you did today. Thank you, steve, it was great, proud of you. Well, thanks for spending some time with me again. My whole purpose of this show is to help you move the ball forward in your life. You know there's plenty of ways that you can connect with us.

Speaker 1: 1:07:06

You can watch this episode over on YouTube at NQR Media. That's NQR Media. You can watch all the past episodes of the One Big Thing. It's also available on all podcast platforms, so get on there, listen. But I could use your help. I would love for you, if these episodes have inspired you, to share it with your network, because you never know how these stories of inspiration can help somebody else that may be in need of it. But if you could also be willing to leave a rating and review. Your rating and review are going to help algorithms in these podcast platforms know the One Big Thing it's business and it's worth the listen. So please subscribe, get on there, leave a rating and review and let's move the ball forward together.